Passion and Exhaustion in Current SPN (spoilers up tp 904)

[citrus_java]

I keep hearing that SPN is getting old, as if the characters are mostly as explored as they can get, no more stories to tell. I think that's very far from true, it's more about the writers losing attention and willingness to change, as well as forgetting way too much about the show's past.

One thing I miss about SPN canon, as well as most of the fic I've come across lately, is a strong desire. For anything. Nobody on the show seems hungry anymore, or rather, if they're hungry they're resigned or just quiet about it (even poor Cas).

Even most of the fic I've read lately didn't have that hunger (maybe it was just a coincident) - for love, for sex, for being OK, for safely, for not being left, etc. It was about other things, some of them interesting, like pain, foreboding, creepiness, gloominess, depression, tentative fun - but not so much hunger or desire.

I thought perhaps it was about missing first-time fic, but established relationship can be just as dramatic and interesting if not more. I imagine, no idea if it's true, that SPN has that much established relationship fic partial because at some point the utter wonder and newness that makes a lot of first-times work, was repeated so many times it lost its magic for a while, and established relationship fics became more interesting. Though I love that fandom has both these days, as well as other options.

Anyway - The most dramatic thing Dean needed this season, to save Sam's life - looks like he pretty much knew he would be able to, and that even if he failed, it'll be ok in some way. And going through almost losing Cas, and Cas being OK, right after what happened with Sam, and again right away with Charlie, empties it all of real fear, desperation, real hunger.

The thing is, it's cool that Dean lives in his reality, and doesn't keep believing it's a completely new thing every time. But wouldn't he, then, feel other things instead? Yeah, now he has money (we assume), a place to live, Sam probably wanting to stay, and more assurance than other people have that his loved ones and he himself will probably be ok (though IDK why Zeke wouldn't let Dean himself die, who knows). But when people get what they want, it often influences them... Wanting to protect that new shiny thing (which may be where Dean is, but we hardly get to see it), missing even bad things from the past, now that they're gone - something. The writers hitting Dean exactly the same way as he dealt with so many times alread, seemingly with the half-expectation that it'll work as if it's new, may be the writers not living in the reality of the show.

Bu it doesn't have to be passion. A different angle on writing from a situation like this can be looking at exhaustion itself. Seems like Jensen is pretty burnt out, and the show is tired too. There can be fascinating, beautiful stories told about exhaustion. Sometimes it has to do with the one last thing a person will get emotional over before they collapse. Sometimes it has to do with subtlety, maturity, a less dramatic way of looking at things and feelings, even though they may still matter to the person just as much. Or finding out you don't actually want things you'd been pining over for so long, or fighting for (like in Amanda Palmer's In My Mind). Or finding out that you've made peace, or that wonder of wonders - real wonder - you're capable of still wanting something new after all of that time (Like in the beautiful Paladin of Souls). Or capable of being new, yourself.

It can be about actually going through mourning some of the things that have been done to you, or you've done to yourself or others. The Winchesters were so often faced with disaster after disaster, without really getting time to deal with it (except for a few rare situations), it could be interesting if suddenly they started having feelings about things they just now has the time and safety to deal with.

Even "smaller" tragedies, like Dean feeling sorrow for not being what Jo wanted from him before she died, or anger at Crowley for getting her killed, or being shaken from Baby being flipped and crashing, with hm inside her, or seemingly irrational anger at Sam for beating him up while he was possessed, so many other things. Mourning things that happened to him as a kid, he never even really looked at his relation with John, beyond scratching the surface here and there. So many things.

And the way dealing with that would make him act, would change the way he acts with Sam and Cas, and Kevin. He might start going out and sleeping with waitresses again, might take up some odd hobby he never allowed himself to try, might become more vulnerable over small things, yell more, less with his "everything's good" attitude - I don't know. But I'd like to see.

Or it can be about living with a disability, or with scars. Like, for Sam - when the world *isn't* really falling apart and you're *not* going through the trials expecting to die soon, you suddenly have to deal. Now is probably the first time Sam's had where he wasn't completely stricken with grief or fighting something huge, since the first episode - or perhaps since before Stanford, in a way. Sam had said some fascinating things, to me, about living with mental issues, hallucinations - I want to hear more. And see some of the less photogenic, more everyday aspects of it. (like not decorating - clearly that was about fear, perhaps it was anxiety he was hiding from Dean)

But it doesn't have be about living with disability. I'd love more development for Sam in general, there's so much inside that boy that so rarely gets expressed, and Jared could make it beautiful and interesting of he got enough of it, too. Sam has a lot to deal with. He was raped, probably repeatedly, he lost all his loved ones, and was left utterly alone and with no one who could even understand, a short while ago. He was raised into a dark, scary world, forced to stay, tried to run away & failed twice. Even his anger issues - very justifiable anger - haven't necessarily been resolved. And more and more...


Perhaps his feelings of being damaged and impure extend beyond demon blood, perhaps it's also about his guilt, helplessness, internalized self loathing, feeling he doesn't measure up, things like handling being tortured/raped - whatever he may still be going through. There is something there, judging by those held back, sad little faces he makes, even when he's good. And along with that, as he said, he does see a light at the end of the tunnel. And it sounded like (I really hope!) he wants to reach that light and have a life with Dean.

Though I believe a lot of it is about feeling he isn't good enough in Dean's eyes.

So, now that he *isn't* in any huge danger he is aware of, perhaps it'd be harder for him, cause he'd need to deal. Perhaps that's why he went through the trials so readily, and was so easily willing to die over them, repeatedly. Perhaps he feels so damaged that what he's good for is dying for something, at that point. Perhaps now, dealing with things like staying - moving in, too - is difficult in a whole different way. And perhaps if he's aware of that - which he is likely to become, being pretty sensitive about that sort of stuff perhaps he'd even think he's forcing his suspicions towards Dean, just to have something distracting to worry about.

Comments

[brightly-lit.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree more with everything you say in this post. (I've been saying similar things myself about S8 to present.) No human being could actually go through all they've gone through and still function, and the weight of all the baggage they're carrying around is beginning to get in the way of furthering the story/character growth instead of helping it along.

It's so true that there are plenty of beautiful stories to be told in healing, in subtler experiences and feelings, in growing and getting better. It seems like the writers think that wouldn't make "good tv," but since the fans are so much more invested in the characters than in shock value, I disagree with that sentiment. Once upon a time, a sharp comment from John about "touching up his car" was cause for a lot of feeling/interesting character development and interactions, whereas now, another apocalypse barely fazes them. I so wish they would get back in touch with these characters' humanity.

You bring up an interesting point about both the writers and the characters not really *feeling* what's happening to them, which as you say, causes it to lose all meaning. This is certainly not a problem they had in the earlier seasons--rather, reacting what's happened to them is what drove the plot and the characters back then. Sometimes I get the feeling the writers feel like SPN is a ship so big it's out of their control, which ain't good--they need to hire writers and/or a showrunner who can handle something as massive, with as passionate a fanbase, as this show.

[balder12.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of this. Unfortunately, I suspect part of the problem is just that the issues of decline and exhaustion are more subtle and complicated than this show was equipped to deal with, even in its best years. Certainly too complicated for the stable of writers they've got now.

In terms of *feeling* what's happening to the characters, I think the single biggest mistake the show ever made was devaluing death. I'm okay with the deaths of Sam and Dean at the end of S2 and S3 because the resurrections came with huge consequences. But that should have been it. No one else should ever have come back. We've seen so many resurrections now that death is a revolving door. And as much as I love "Dark Side of the Moon"--it would be on my list of all time favorite episodes--it set a bad precedent. Sam and Dean know they're going to Heaven when they die. Not in the way religious people know there's something better on the other side because they have faith, but in the way I know there's a grocery store on the corner because I've been there. That makes Sam and Dean different from every real human being who's ever lived. Death can't possibly be as dire for them as it is for us because they know for a fact they'll meet again. It makes them a little less human, and it makes the threat of death on the show less powerful to the viewer.

[amyww.livejournal.com]

This post couldn't come at a better time for me. I agree with everything you've said.

I'm in the middle of a longer story that I usually write, and I'm just having trouble finding the passion. The wanting, the yearning. Which is something I love in stories. And I haven't been impressed with the new season, partially because it doesn't seem like they are exploring anything new and yet the are also not dealing with any of the past ptsd-inducing stuff as much as they could. instead of dealing with anything, we get talking dogs and throwaway comments about Kevin being in Branson. We haven't even dealt with the implications of the bunker - as you pointed out. The boys have bucks now. like real money. The could sell one of those cars, hell some of the fixtures or mid-century furniture, and get some cash.

I know I'm being harsh and all these things have been touched on, but we used to get such good writing.

The revolving door of death has sapped all the emotion out of it. We knew Cas wasn't going to die, we knew Charlie wasn't permanently dead. We knew Zeke would take care of it. where's the tension? i would love to see them dealing with that they know they're going to heaven thing. Because for all fandom's talk of them being soulmates, as far as Dean knows, all sam's best memories don't have Dean in them. And who wants to spend eternity in the memories, regardless of how good they were? Heck, does Sam even know Dean didn't leave that horrible cell phone message yet? There is so much left to write about.

"Once upon a time, a sharp comment from John about "touching up his car" was cause for a lot of feeling/interesting character development and interactions, whereas now, another apocalypse barely fazes them. I so wish they would get back in touch with these characters' humanity." - This is what ineed to get back to in my own writing. I'm going to find those tiny moments and make them come out. I want to write post-season 7 stories.

Breakfast is burning. Thanks for the insight.

[bowtrunckle.livejournal.com]

This. All of this. The emotional story of these brothers is a bottomless pot of possibilities. This show benefits from having such a long on-screen history (and a long unseen history with the MoL story as well as the Winchester and Campbell family histories) that digging back into it's own past and using the fallout of those events to re-examine current story lines wouldn't be difficult, esp. considering a lot of what we're seeing now is a rehash of past conflicts/insecurities/hurts. Being that Sam and Dean have been spiraling around in the toilet of deception, devotion, self-sacrifice for YEARS, their current predicament pretty much begs for some sort of personal revelation that breaks this cycle once and for all (because if it doesn't then, wow, that's depressing, and the writers are painting Sam and Dean as unbelievable bone heads *scoff*). However, I'm unsure if this is actually going to happen to any degree; I don't feel the writing team's agenda anymore is really to write stories fueled by this sort of emotional depth. They are writing stories driven by characters needs and wants (mostly Dean's right now), but I feel like it's only to the extent of simply providing a justification for the surface plot.

I also realize that what I want from this show comes from a very invested fan place, which doesn't reflect the general viewing audience at large. And the writers are in the business of writing at TV show on a network TV schedule and budget with network executive oversight, which is driven by numbers and needs to appeal to a general audience. Part of me can see why delving too deeply into complex, thorny back story would alienate new, casual viewers or not really "fit" with the perceived action/horror stamp SPN seems to be branded with. As much as I love blabbing (in my head) about the writers and what they need/should be doing, I think what's largely forgotten about are the actual trappings of their jobs, how they don't have absolute free reign over every aspect of the story, and how that affects what we see or don't see onscreen. I bet there are a lot of interesting aspects of Sam and Dean's relationship they'd love to delve into, but just can't make it work with the constraints they're given and the desires of TPTB. And that's where fandom steps in....

[mashimero.livejournal.com]

going through almost losing Cas, and Cas being OK, right after what happened with Sam, and again right away with Charlie, empties it all of real fear, desperation, real hunger.
Ugh.One of my BIGGEST pet peeves is when they kill off a character, only to bring them back right away (and sometimes, kill them again... and again). Not counting Sam and Dean of course, what with them being the main characters. And it's not only that it empties Dean's reactions, like you said. But as a viewer, it also robs the moment of any shock or emotion. I mean at this point, it would probably shock me even MORE if a character actually stayed dead.

Bu it doesn't have to be passion. A different angle on writing from a situation like this can be looking at exhaustion itself. Seems like Jensen is pretty burnt out, and the show is tired too. There can be fascinating, beautiful stories told about exhaustion.
And can I just say YESSSSSSSSSSSS to your whole post starting from this point on. I've said many times that, to me, it felt like the writers were lost after S5. Not so much because they lost Kripke's vision, but because they had no idea how to "top" the Apocalypse. A lot of TV seems to think that bigger = better, which is most definitely not the case! Because these characters have been through SO MUCH, and there's so much that can be explored just by dealing with what's going on in their heads. It might not be flashy, but it would be 1000x more compelling to me. And let's face it, it's not like the show has a huge budget for flashy stuff anyways. IIRC there were interviews for S5 where people mentioned not being able to show the war between heaven and hell because they didn't have the budget for VFX on that scale. But I think that added to one of my favourite parts of S5: that, despite the epic scale plot going on, the story was still focused on Sam&Dean.

That's why I had such high hopes during S7 when early interviews said that the show would go back to focusing on the brothers... and again for S8, but I was disappointed each time. While S7 did bring it back to the brothers, in the sense that Sam and Dean lost so many people and the Impala, we didn't get to see as much character development as I was hoping for. And same with S8.

he never even really looked at his relation with John, beyond scratching the surface here and there. So many things. and Perhaps that's why he went through the trials so readily, and was so easily willing to die over them, repeatedly. Perhaps he feels so damaged that what he's good for is dying for something, at that point
I think that both points I quoted above were touched on in S8, but again with the pacing problems! I think Time After Time could've made for a great two-parter. I would've loved to learned more about Henry and John, and how that affected Sam and Dean's view of John. And as for Sam feeling damaged, it took SO long for the show to get there, and by that point S8 was basically over. I think that's why S8 was so frustrating for me. After the dismal first third or so that I wish had never happened, the season took a turn for the better, and I was EXCITED about the show again! But it kept touching on things but never going all the way in exploring them.

ETA: I also want to add, re: your comment about Jensen becoming tired. I think it's really been showing since S8, because sometimes I honestly feel like I'm watching Jensen on screen instead of Dean. And I've seen him switch from Jensen to Dean like that at cons, so I know he can do it easy! So it's really sad if it's gotten to the point where he's phoning it in that much. There have been points during S8 where I felt like I was watching Jared instead of Sam as well, but that was mostly during Sam and Amelia scenes, and based on what Jared's said in interviews, I think that's more a case of Jared not having a clue how to play Sam rather than not trying.

[fight-thedead.livejournal.com]

The writers are in a somewhat difficult situation because they have to keep the boys going but somehow keep tapping into the past in a way that doesn't seem redundant for the fans or stagnant for Sam and Dean's character growth.

Unfortunately, I picture them gripping at their pens (in my mind, the best writing is still done with a pen and paper) with white knuckles and suddenly saying, "another filler episode?" because they don't know how to do it.

I do miss the earlier seasons when the boys cared - probably cared too much, but still, the desire and passion and hurt and anger and love really just slammed into your chest and made you feel for these two. But how do you keep that going? Something that popped into my head was them beginning to deal with a future for themselves. Yes, they have money now, a "home" where they both (at least temporarily) want to stay, and more stability then they ever had before. I'd like to see them dealing with wanderlust - maybe Dean starts to feel like his bedroom walls start caving in on him, or maybe it will be the opposite; Sam finds something he likes, maybe a little trinket or a picture or painting, so he hangs it up in his bedroom - and it hits him, wow, I have a bedroom, I have a home. And the real impact of never having a home or a family really hits him. Maybe it causes him to break down, maybe it doesn't.

Maybe Sam starts thinking about taking classes again, establishing a future for himself. He falls into a comfortable routine with Dean and Cas and Kevin, they start to have a life (even with the hunting) and then something happens to threaten it, but threatens it in a big way. Something they know they can't stop. Maybe that threat will take them all the way to the final episode. Because they death doesn't always mean death as someone above me pointed out (sidenote - a friend that watches an episode or two of Supernatural with me every now and again didn't understand why I was so upset when Bobby died because: "you know he'll just come back in an episode or three - who cares). And if fans are that compliant with death, yikes, think about how the boys feel.

I also feel like there is a lot of potential in Crowley (and man, he needs a bigger story arch in this season!), human!Cas to bring back emotions to Sam and Dean. Crowley's "I deserve to be loved" from the previous season needs to be tapped into. It was a great parallel to Dean's outburst in Dream a Little Dream: I didn't deserve what he put on me and I don't deserve to go to Hell! As much as I don't want Crowley humanized, it could be a great device to help Dean with some self-actualization. Maybe it can bring him back to that time and made him reflect on everything he's done, on the paths he's taken, on how he's lost touch with that young man that wanted to save everyone - instead of stabbing human vessels to get rid of demons.

I don't know - it's just sad to watch a show that I love struggle under the weight of - the weight of what? Pressure, direction, fan service? I almost feel like everyone needs to take a step back and breathe before they jump in. Go back and pick out things that haven't been touched upon (like Sam's heaven not including family, ect) and bringing those elements back in a way that compliments the story line and pushes our boys forward with a spark in their eyes.

I feel like I'm forgetting a lot of what I wanted to say.