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citrus_javaI keep hearing that SPN is getting old, as if the characters are mostly as explored as they can get, no more stories to tell. I think that's very far from true, it's more about the writers losing attention and willingness to change, as well as forgetting way too much about the show's past.
One thing I miss about SPN canon, as well as most of the fic I've come across lately, is a strong desire. For anything. Nobody on the show seems hungry anymore, or rather, if they're hungry they're resigned or just quiet about it (even poor Cas).
Even most of the fic I've read lately didn't have that hunger (maybe it was just a coincident) - for love, for sex, for being OK, for safely, for not being left, etc. It was about other things, some of them interesting, like pain, foreboding, creepiness, gloominess, depression, tentative fun - but not so much hunger or desire.
I thought perhaps it was about missing first-time fic, but established relationship can be just as dramatic and interesting if not more. I imagine, no idea if it's true, that SPN has that much established relationship fic partial because at some point the utter wonder and newness that makes a lot of first-times work, was repeated so many times it lost its magic for a while, and established relationship fics became more interesting. Though I love that fandom has both these days, as well as other options.
Anyway - The most dramatic thing Dean needed this season, to save Sam's life - looks like he pretty much knew he would be able to, and that even if he failed, it'll be ok in some way. And going through almost losing Cas, and Cas being OK, right after what happened with Sam, and again right away with Charlie, empties it all of real fear, desperation, real hunger.
The thing is, it's cool that Dean lives in his reality, and doesn't keep believing it's a completely new thing every time. But wouldn't he, then, feel other things instead? Yeah, now he has money (we assume), a place to live, Sam probably wanting to stay, and more assurance than other people have that his loved ones and he himself will probably be ok(though IDK why Zeke wouldn't let Dean himself die, who knows) . But when people get what they want, it often influences them... Wanting to protect that new shiny thing (which may be where Dean is, but we hardly get to see it), missing even bad things from the past, now that they're gone - something. The writers hitting Dean exactly the same way as he dealt with so many times alread, seemingly with the half-expectation that it'll work as if it's new, may be the writers not living in the reality of the show.
Bu it doesn't have to be passion. A different angle on writing from a situation like this can be looking at exhaustion itself. Seems like Jensen is pretty burnt out, and the show is tired too. There can be fascinating, beautiful stories told about exhaustion. Sometimes it has to do with the one last thing a person will get emotional over before they collapse. Sometimes it has to do with subtlety, maturity, a less dramatic way of looking at things and feelings, even though they may still matter to the person just as much. Or finding out you don't actually want things you'd been pining over for so long, or fighting for (like in Amanda Palmer's In My Mind). Or finding out that you've made peace, or that wonder of wonders - real wonder - you're capable of still wanting something new after all of that time (Like in the beautiful Paladin of Souls). Or capable of being new, yourself.
It can be about actually going through mourning some of the things that have been done to you, or you've done to yourself or others. The Winchesters were so often faced with disaster after disaster, without really getting time to deal with it (except for a few rare situations), it could be interesting if suddenly they started having feelings about things they just now has the time and safety to deal with.
Even "smaller" tragedies, like Dean feeling sorrow for not being what Jo wanted from him before she died, or anger at Crowley for getting her killed, or being shaken from Baby being flipped and crashing, with hm inside her, or seemingly irrational anger at Sam for beating him up while he was possessed, so many other things. Mourning things that happened to him as a kid, he never even really looked at his relation with John, beyond scratching the surface here and there. So many things.
And the way dealing with that would make him act, would change the way he acts with Sam and Cas, and Kevin. He might start going out and sleeping with waitresses again, might take up some odd hobby he never allowed himself to try, might become more vulnerable over small things, yell more, less with his "everything's good" attitude - I don't know. But I'd like to see.
Or it can be about living with a disability, or with scars. Like, for Sam - when the world *isn't* really falling apart and you're *not* going through the trials expecting to die soon, you suddenly have to deal. Now is probably the first time Sam's had where he wasn't completely stricken with grief or fighting something huge, since the first episode - or perhaps since before Stanford, in a way. Sam had said some fascinating things, to me, about living with mental issues, hallucinations - I want to hear more. And see some of the less photogenic, more everyday aspects of it. (like not decorating - clearly that was about fear, perhaps it was anxiety he was hiding from Dean)
But it doesn't have be about living with disability.I'd love more development for Sam in general, there's so much inside that boy that so rarely gets expressed, and Jared could make it beautiful and interesting of he got enough of it, too. Sam has a lot to deal with. He was raped, probably repeatedly, he lost all his loved ones, and was left utterly alone and with no one who could even understand, a short while ago. He was raised into a dark, scary world, forced to stay, tried to run away & failed twice. Even his anger issues - very justifiable anger - haven't necessarily been resolved. And more and more...
Perhaps his feelings of being damaged and impure extend beyond demon blood, perhaps it's also about his guilt, helplessness, internalized self loathing, feeling he doesn't measure up, things like handling being tortured/raped - whatever he may still be going through. There is something there, judging by those held back, sad little faces he makes, even when he's good. And along with that, as he said, he does see a light at the end of the tunnel. And it sounded like (I really hope!) he wants to reach that light and have a life with Dean.
Though I believe a lot of it is about feeling he isn't good enough in Dean's eyes.
So, now that he *isn't* in any huge danger he is aware of, perhaps it'd be harder for him, cause he'd need to deal. Perhaps that's why he went through the trials so readily, and was so easily willing to die over them, repeatedly. Perhaps he feels so damaged that what he's good for is dying for something, at that point. Perhaps now, dealing with things like staying - moving in, too - is difficult in a whole different way. And perhaps if he's aware of that - which he is likely to become, being pretty sensitive about that sort of stuff perhaps he'd even think he's forcing his suspicions towards Dean, just to have something distracting to worry about.
One thing I miss about SPN canon, as well as most of the fic I've come across lately, is a strong desire. For anything. Nobody on the show seems hungry anymore, or rather, if they're hungry they're resigned or just quiet about it (even poor Cas).
Even most of the fic I've read lately didn't have that hunger (maybe it was just a coincident) - for love, for sex, for being OK, for safely, for not being left, etc. It was about other things, some of them interesting, like pain, foreboding, creepiness, gloominess, depression, tentative fun - but not so much hunger or desire.
I thought perhaps it was about missing first-time fic, but established relationship can be just as dramatic and interesting if not more. I imagine, no idea if it's true, that SPN has that much established relationship fic partial because at some point the utter wonder and newness that makes a lot of first-times work, was repeated so many times it lost its magic for a while, and established relationship fics became more interesting. Though I love that fandom has both these days, as well as other options.
Anyway - The most dramatic thing Dean needed this season, to save Sam's life - looks like he pretty much knew he would be able to, and that even if he failed, it'll be ok in some way. And going through almost losing Cas, and Cas being OK, right after what happened with Sam, and again right away with Charlie, empties it all of real fear, desperation, real hunger.
The thing is, it's cool that Dean lives in his reality, and doesn't keep believing it's a completely new thing every time. But wouldn't he, then, feel other things instead? Yeah, now he has money (we assume), a place to live, Sam probably wanting to stay, and more assurance than other people have that his loved ones and he himself will probably be ok
Bu it doesn't have to be passion. A different angle on writing from a situation like this can be looking at exhaustion itself. Seems like Jensen is pretty burnt out, and the show is tired too. There can be fascinating, beautiful stories told about exhaustion. Sometimes it has to do with the one last thing a person will get emotional over before they collapse. Sometimes it has to do with subtlety, maturity, a less dramatic way of looking at things and feelings, even though they may still matter to the person just as much. Or finding out you don't actually want things you'd been pining over for so long, or fighting for (like in Amanda Palmer's In My Mind). Or finding out that you've made peace, or that wonder of wonders - real wonder - you're capable of still wanting something new after all of that time (Like in the beautiful Paladin of Souls). Or capable of being new, yourself.
It can be about actually going through mourning some of the things that have been done to you, or you've done to yourself or others. The Winchesters were so often faced with disaster after disaster, without really getting time to deal with it (except for a few rare situations), it could be interesting if suddenly they started having feelings about things they just now has the time and safety to deal with.
Even "smaller" tragedies, like Dean feeling sorrow for not being what Jo wanted from him before she died, or anger at Crowley for getting her killed, or being shaken from Baby being flipped and crashing, with hm inside her, or seemingly irrational anger at Sam for beating him up while he was possessed, so many other things. Mourning things that happened to him as a kid, he never even really looked at his relation with John, beyond scratching the surface here and there. So many things.
And the way dealing with that would make him act, would change the way he acts with Sam and Cas, and Kevin. He might start going out and sleeping with waitresses again, might take up some odd hobby he never allowed himself to try, might become more vulnerable over small things, yell more, less with his "everything's good" attitude - I don't know. But I'd like to see.
Or it can be about living with a disability, or with scars. Like, for Sam - when the world *isn't* really falling apart and you're *not* going through the trials expecting to die soon, you suddenly have to deal. Now is probably the first time Sam's had where he wasn't completely stricken with grief or fighting something huge, since the first episode - or perhaps since before Stanford, in a way. Sam had said some fascinating things, to me, about living with mental issues, hallucinations - I want to hear more. And see some of the less photogenic, more everyday aspects of it. (like not decorating - clearly that was about fear, perhaps it was anxiety he was hiding from Dean)
But it doesn't have be about living with disability.
Perhaps his feelings of being damaged and impure extend beyond demon blood, perhaps it's also about his guilt, helplessness, internalized self loathing, feeling he doesn't measure up, things like handling being tortured/raped - whatever he may still be going through. There is something there, judging by those held back, sad little faces he makes, even when he's good. And along with that, as he said, he does see a light at the end of the tunnel. And it sounded like (I really hope!) he wants to reach that light and have a life with Dean.
Though I believe a lot of it is about feeling he isn't good enough in Dean's eyes.
So, now that he *isn't* in any huge danger he is aware of, perhaps it'd be harder for him, cause he'd need to deal. Perhaps that's why he went through the trials so readily, and was so easily willing to die over them, repeatedly. Perhaps he feels so damaged that what he's good for is dying for something, at that point. Perhaps now, dealing with things like staying - moving in, too - is difficult in a whole different way. And perhaps if he's aware of that - which he is likely to become, being pretty sensitive about that sort of stuff perhaps he'd even think he's forcing his suspicions towards Dean, just to have something distracting to worry about.
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no subject
Date: 2013-11-21 11:31 am (UTC)Heh, I'm the oposite of that, but perhaps we can agree she was very different...
no matter how much they saved for an epic battle scene, there's no way they could've made it believable. It's hard enough for multi-million dollar Hollywood films to pull it off!
One of my troubles with my own writing, is the big action scenes. So many times it's just never finished, a bunch of scenes tagged with "here they run through corridors" that I never manage to write. I just don't care. I don't. Unless it's also a scene about other sorts of development, I just don't care. So I'm a fan of the way they did it there. And less of a fan of the second LotR movie.
Oh my gosh, I don't know how this didn't occur to me earlier, but YES. John is one of those characters that I think really gets shortchanged in fandom. He so often gets painted as a flat-out abusive father (if not worse). Which he is, but there's a lot to his character that could be explored, but I so rarely see it. Which is a little surprising since we got so much more insight into his backstory with "Time After Time".
IA. Perhaps some people who love writing John are already too used to the way they've been seeing him since s1, and some new people don't care as much about him cause they're more invested in current canon?
[and I don't have the time to write it like it deserves to be written... though it would be much more interesting than my homework, ugh]
no subject
Date: 2013-11-22 11:30 am (UTC)Interesting. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on her, if you feel like discussing it. I know a lot of people loved her in the later seasons, but I just never got it :S
I can't imagine how hard action scenes must be to write! Having to capture that sense of movement and keeping track of multiple people, while keeping it coherent? Props to anyone who can do that well!
Perhaps some people who love writing John are already too used to the way they've been seeing him since s1, and some new people don't care as much about him cause they're more invested in current canon?
Yeah, I guess I'm one of those people who are a bit stuck seeing him with S1 characterization. I do recognize the newer canon, but damn if I don't have issues about how he was written!
no subject
Date: 2013-11-22 05:12 pm (UTC)Well, I don't wanna bash a character you love. Not my taste :)
Yeah, I guess I'm one of those people who are a bit stuck seeing him with S1 characterization. I do recognize the newer canon, but damn if I don't have issues about how he was written!
Well, season 1 John is great! Good character, and JDM... YEAH.
no subject
Date: 2013-11-25 08:57 am (UTC)Ok, fair enough :)
I MISS JDM SO MUCH GDI. I really wish that SPN would be able to afford him to get back on the show, because I think to see him as John again would add SO MUCH to the story. *adds to wishlist of things I wish SPN had the money for*
no subject
Date: 2013-11-25 07:12 pm (UTC)And I have this insistent plot bunny, I don't even know why, about the boys getting back to the Batcave and him just being there, perhaps like some signifier of how much they'd changed and everything they do and thing differently now... and sort of having to work through what his presence brings up in them, and being different from what he'd like and in other ways being just what he'd like, and not being who he'd remember them as and expect them to be...
Also, I so wanna see them doing the "hiding their relationship from dad" as grown ups. So.
*adds to wishlist of things I wish SPN had the money for*
What else's on the list?
no subject
Date: 2013-11-25 10:07 pm (UTC)What else's on the list?
Music! S8 and 9 seem to be working on including more music into the show, but S6 and 7 were really terrible on that front. And better VFX. I can tell that a LOT of the VFX on the show is not going to age well, unfortunately :S
no subject
Date: 2013-11-25 10:14 pm (UTC)Oh, music! So very much in agreement there! <3
I kinda stopped expecting the music to be good anymore :-/
no subject
Date: 2013-11-25 10:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-11-25 10:31 pm (UTC)Actually, I was thinking you probably wrote well, cause you strike me as someone who cares, loves and understands the characters, thinks about them.
no subject
Date: 2013-11-25 11:12 pm (UTC)