Come remix and be remixed!

[citrus_java]

As balder12 pointed out convincingly, this is a fun challenge - basically, over your fic to be remixed, and if you feel like it, remix other participant's fic. Fun, easy, slashy, supernaturally (though other fandoms as well)! Go do it! It's my first time, you're likely to seem very savvy around me.

ETA: This forced me to actually update my master fic list. That is a thing that happened, IRL. Wow.

Comments

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

I think it's partly that I'm angry at Dean in ways that make it hard for me to write him fairly


I get the falling out of... shipping.
So sweet of you as a writer to be aware of this attitude towards Dean, and deciding what to do with it in such a respectful and responsible way...

It might have been a very different version of Sam though--I often feel like my Sam is fan fic of de_nugis's fan fic.

That's such cool distinction, and I've definitely read fic like that, though as a reader who loves both your fics, I don't have the same feelings towards your Sams, I experience them differently, I believe... then again, that's true for fic/canon characters as well.



I sometimes regret I didn't write fan fic back when I really shipped Sam/Dean (essentially the first five seasons)

Ahh!


It's actually kind of remarkable how few stories I've written where Sam and Dean even talk to each other

Sad... I understand, but that's so sad...
:-(




Right now my shippy feelings are entirely focused on Sam/Kevin for reasons I don't fully understand. Some part of my brain seems to have decided that since I don't identify with Cas anymore, I'm going to identify with Kevin instead.

Good thing Kevin's an option, I'm glad you have that.

I agree with you that I don't really care whether the relationship between characters is sexual or not. If I read a fic where two people I ship have an intense-but-platonic emotional scene, that can be just as satisfying to me as porn, and maybe more so.

*nodnodnod*

That's probably why I love hurt/comfort so much.


Interesting. On paper I so should love the non-triggery parts of that genre! And I've loved - like, the fic that changed my mind about slave!fic was some AU in which Jared saves Jensen from a neglectful master and metaphorically cuddles him back to emotional stability. I'd define that as h/c... but for some reason, I don't enjoy most of the fic in that genre that I've tried. Perhaps it's simply the triggeriness.

[balder12.livejournal.com]

So sweet of you as a writer to be aware of this attitude towards Dean, and deciding what to do with it in such a respectful and responsible way...

I don't know how much it's 'responsible' and how much it's just how I write, but I try very hard not to write a character unless I feel emotionally detached enough to look at them at least somewhat objectively. Like, I think Gadreel did some morally terrible things, but I don't feel personally angry at him, so it's still possible for me to write his pov. Ditto Crowley. I've run across writers in fandom who use their fic to play out their grudges and aggrandize their favorite character at the expense of any one else's subjectivity, and there are few things I find more distasteful. If you ever catch me doing that, slap me (in a respectful, verbal way :) )

On paper I so should love the non-triggery parts of that genre! And I've loved - like, the fic that changed my mind about slave!fic was some AU in which Jared saves Jensen from a neglectful master and metaphorically cuddles him back to emotional stability. I'd define that as h/c... but for some reason, I don't enjoy most of the fic in that genre that I've tried. Perhaps it's simply the triggeriness.

I think part of it, too, is that you have to love the hurt as well as the comfort. I like seeing my favorites hurt mentally and physically, even if I can't totally pin down why. If you only enjoy the 'comfort' half of the equation, the genre's probably not going to do it for you.

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

Maybe "responsible" was not the right word. It just feels - touching, that you 'd care about that.

I try very hard not to write a character unless I feel emotionally detached enough

Hee, interesting! I'm used to thinking about it the other way around, the need to be emotionally attached enough.


I've run across writers in fandom who use their fic to play out their grudges and aggrandize their favorite character at the expense of any one else's subjectivity


Yeah... I've read those. Where it's not the characters finding somebody evil (or such), but the story promoting that or assuming agreement on that, or just depicts someone - och. All the Sam bashing. Spoiled, selfish child who's just using Dean and never does anything for anyone... ugh. I don't mind it as much when it's characters like the monster of the week, or sometimes John or that hunter to tried to kill Sam being used just as an antagonist to move forward the plot - perhaps just because I'm not that attached to them. But some stories are more about taking the time to revel in somebody's horribleness... Less my cup of tea.


If you ever catch me doing that, slap me (in a respectful, verbal way :) )

LOL



I think part of it, too, is that you have to love the hurt as well as the comfort. I like seeing my favorites hurt mentally and physically, even if I can't totally pin down why. If you only enjoy the 'comfort' half of the equation, the genre's probably not going to do it for you.


Huh, I suspect you put your finger on it, spot on, that's probably exactly why.
Might like the comfort-after-hurt, for sure, pining, yeah, and sometimes angst, all sorts of BDSM, sometimes non-con even, but just stark badness of my boys, it's just... ahhhhhh. I NEED them to be OK. Not so much for me. Not sure what the difference is, but I seem to feel it, and other people seem to feel i too...

[balder12.livejournal.com]

I'm used to thinking about it the other way around, the need to be emotionally attached enough.

It's both for me, I think. Before I can write a character's pov I need to find some part of myself that's like them, or that empathizes with them, even if on the surface we're very different people. Gadreel's done some morally terrible things, but I get his loneliness, his desperation, his longing to be understood, and that makes it possible for me to write his pov.

But on the flip side, if I start to have trouble distinguishing a character from me, or from someone who wronged me in real life, then it's time to step away. There's both fic and meta out there that looks a lot like someone inflicting their anger toward a real person on a fictional character, or reliving their trauma through a fictional character, and while that can be fascinating at a psychological level, I think it rarely makes for good art.

Yeah... I've read those. Where it's not the characters finding somebody evil (or such), but the story promoting that or assuming agreement on that, or just depicts someone - och. All the Sam bashing. Spoiled, selfish child who's just using Dean and never does anything for anyone... ugh. I don't mind it as much when it's characters like the monster of the week, or sometimes John or that hunter to tried to kill Sam being used just as an antagonist to move forward the plot - perhaps just because I'm not that attached to them. But some stories are more about taking the time to revel in somebody's horribleness... Less my cup of tea.

It seems different to me if it's a MOTW or someone who was framed as a villain on the show, because then it's just more of a plot device. There's definitely a lot of fic where Sam becomes the big meanie who just doesn't appreciate how much Dean loves him. Lately, though, I've been coming across more of the opposite, where Dean is an abusive asshole and Sam is the woobie without the strength to stand up to him. And look, canon Dean is an asshole right now, and what he did to Sam in 9.01 was genuinely horrific and immoral, and his refusal to acknowledge that is a big part of why I'm angry enough at the character that I can't write him. But some fic reaches the point where it reframes everything Dean's ever done in the least sympathetic light possible, and I feel like that's not fair to Dean or Sam, and maybe more importantly sanding off the nuances of the characters doesn't make for an interesting take on canon.

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

Makes sense that it'd be both, of course.

but I get his loneliness, his desperation, his longing to be understood


Sweet....
And I get what you're saying about finding something you identify with .

But on the flip side, if I start to have trouble distinguishing a character from me, or from someone who wronged me in real life, then it's time to step away. There's both fic and meta out there that looks a lot like someone inflicting their anger toward a real person on a fictional character, or reliving their trauma through a fictional character, and while that can be fascinating at a psychological level, I think it rarely makes for good art.

I get that. Not sure where I stand on this for myself - I often use issues I have IRL for writing, though I'm still trying to learn to use writing to work through things IRL. It's a codependent relationship, and erotic, though perhaps not psychotic or irrational ;)
I believe it can make my writing better, but it can definitely make it worst in other respects. DK.
I suppose I need both as well .

Lately, though, I've been coming across more of the opposite, where Dean is an abusive asshole and Sam is the woobie without the strength to stand up to him.

Ahh, haven't read those... I'm glad fandom is finally acknowledging that Sam is dependent and very influenced by Dean, but that certainly doesn't make Dean a one-dimensional villain... The main awesomeness of SPN is the amazing, complex characters and their relationship...

And look, canon Dean is an asshole right now, and what he did to Sam in 9.01 was genuinely horrific and immoral, and his refusal to acknowledge that is a big part of why I'm angry enough at the character that I can't write him. But some fic reaches the point where it reframes everything Dean's ever done in the least sympathetic light possible, and I feel like that's not fair to Dean or Sam, and maybe more importantly sanding off the nuances of the characters doesn't make for an interesting take on canon.



Agreed, agreed, agreed.