Characterization and universality in fic and in SPN canon

[citrus_java]

I have this rule about writing (not that I always follow it myself) - don't assume the audience likes the characters because you gave them a reason to, two chapters ago. You have to keep giving reasons. This rule doesn't apply, for me, to Dean and Sam. I love them so much, that part is stable. So I need to amend my rule to say - even in season 9, you have to keep characterizing. These days, I really miss Sam and Dean. These days, the characters are less specific, wobbling too much for emotional arcs I really feel I can hang on to. J&J make it float , (especially Jared, which makes me so proud and glad, since Jensen was the one who used to do more of that, and also since Jared has way less to work with).


It's common these days, in more and more sorts of research, to talk about what's considered "normal", "universal", "not worth mentioning, because of course". Like someone being a white straight man. You know the drill. The common approach today (or, at least, around me) is to look at it as something that is specific, too, not universal. Like- being a man is specific, men aren't "general people". And in one way, most research in existence is about men, canonical everything is written mostly bu men and so forth, but in another way, there's not a lot of research about masculinity itself.

It's interesting to me to look at fic that's like that, in SPN, our "usual" fic. Or at least, your usual Sam/Dean or Sam & Dean fic, I don't read enough of the others to know, and I am curious to hear about this in other places in fandom, if you know and feel like saying.

I'd say your garden variety fic is "not season specific", but it takes place around season 3, minus the deal, give or take the angels and Sam's muscles. Motel rooms, following cases from town to town, diners, bringing each other coffee/take out in the morning (have they ever, ever done that in canon before last episode?), they know about possession and demons, if there are angels around, they're not central, nobody is crazy or suicidal or an alcoholic, and they don't know about fic. Dean's likely to hit on random (gorgeous) girls, Bobby's around and walking, The Trickster is around in either persona, Crowley probably isn't.

Even with fic that's less specific than that, it's often easy to tell around what season stories were written, the same way decades have indications in fashion and music. Vibe, characterizations, small things that became non-canon, the description of Sam's body and hair, And, of course, bigger things like each character's mental place, the way the audience is expected to think about their relationship, and how they're likely to act.

It's really interesting to me that "first time", while perhaps more central, is far from being obvious in this sort of fic. It might be cause it makes PWPs easier, but I don't think that's why. Perhaps it's because to many people, they sort of always had a relationship. Perhaps it because it's been so long, we get it, they're together, and as I took to yelling at the screen, watching SPN for the first time - there's only so much UST you can drive your audience crazy with before they gather outside the network offices with farm tools and take Show from you. Which is, of course, the low tech version of writing fic.

It seems like in seasons 8-9, a lot of Dean's characterization is "general" Dean, which is to say - zig-zaging between seasons and states of mind. Yeah, they're all Dean, but what Dean are we getting? Why? Sam, on the other hand, is still suffering from his role as "the everyman", even after everything he went through, and we went through with him.
Dean gets so much characterization, while Sam gets close to nothing official. I love, *love* that fandom took things like him not having specific hobbies, not having/decorating a room and so forth, as characterization, as a thing. And I like that canon finally caught up with that last episode. Either way, the writing of both of them suffers from this generalization, imo.

Comments

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

I agree that the show is more focused on Sam at the moment, and it's about time, though they could have done it way better, and I wish they'd still focus on Dean, too. There is not reason not to. Don't see why that'd cause you to lose interest in Sam's feelings, but I guess to each their own.

[liliaeth]

The problem is that Sam has always had the focus of the writers. He's gotten all the storylines, everything's been always about Sam's story. Whenever Dean got a storyline, it inevitably ended up being about Sam, but at least we had Dean's feelings. Now they've dropped even that. It's as if Dean no longer exists outside of Sam, and after the way they had Sam behaving like an asshole to Dean in s8 I just have no interest in Sam, not anymore.

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

As I see it, the show has been mostly about Dean for most of its run. Dean's feelings, the way Dean handles things. Dean's been the heart of the show, even when the plots were about Sam. And don't get me wrong, I adore Dean (not choosing a favorite, nope), but that really hurt the show, IMO. Sam got very little characterization, very little agency, even. Dean's the one who saves Sam, Dean's the one who kills the big bads, dean's the one who worries, who comes up with ideas, the one minor characters talk to etc. It's so often all about Dean. The show has been cruel to Sam. But again, YMMV.

[mashimero.livejournal.com]

Popping in here to say that I agree with both you and liliaeth in a way. I find that a lot of the times, things and plot arcs happen to/revolve around Sam, but we almost always see Dean's POV, which makes it seem more like "his" show. I think one of the ways the show is starting to show its age is that they don't bother to switch it up and shown us Dean's actions from Sam's POV. All the seasons start to follow a very predictable pattern when the dynamic between the two leads doesn't change.

And to add to liliaeth's point about Dean "no longer exist[ing[ outside of Sam", I would argue that Dean has always revolved around Sam (and Sam with Dean, and that codependency is why I love their relationship so!). The disappointing part for me this season is that we're not actually seeing much of Sam, either. Instead we're seeing Dean interacting more and more with Ezekiel, a completely new character. Add to that the fact that Ezekiel is pretty flat emotionally, like most other angels, and that Jensen is phoning it in, like I see someone mentioned above, and things just get downright boring :|

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

they don't bother to switch it up and shown us Dean's actions from Sam's POV.

I agree, you're (sadly) so right.
I miss that so much! Sam's POV has such a different flavor to it! I miss him...
And Dean's POV is becoming wooden, somehow, perhaps from overuse. We get it, everybody they meet loved Dean, and Dean's a closeted geek. The reason we were excited about that was that it was discovering something new about Dean (well, mostly). Saying it again every episode will not get you the same reaction, ok? : /


I would argue that Dean has always revolved around Sam (and Sam with Dean, and that codependency is why I love their relationship so!). The disappointing part for me this season is that we're not actually seeing much of Sam, either. Instead we're seeing Dean interacting more and more with Ezekiel, a completely new character. Add to that the fact that Ezekiel is pretty flat emotionally, like most other angels, and that Jensen is phoning it in, like I see someone mentioned above, and things just get downright boring :|

I agree :(
To me, it's more complicated than that, but I agree on all of your points.
Somehow we're seeing less of both of them, fewer scenes but also fewer broments and less indications of who they are. If we know all there is to know about them, and now we don't even get to see it anymore cause we already know about it so why show us - what are we doing there, and why? :-(

[mashimero.livejournal.com]

And Dean's POV is becoming wooden, somehow, perhaps from overuse. We get it, everybody they meet loved Dean, and Dean's a closeted geek
Yessssss. The show has gotten so formulaic. I know a lot of people disliked S1/2 because of the MOTW format, and felt that it was too formulaic, but I actually LOVED those because despite being formulaic, the earlier episodes were able to tie in the MOTW story with the brother's story arc. In contrast, the MOTW episodes in recent seasons have been almost ALL filler (which is a big pet peeve of mine for the obvious reasons, but also because then it leaves plot-heavy episodes with too much to do, and throws the pacing all off. Grrrr).

Somehow we're seeing less of both of them, fewer scenes but also fewer broments and less indications of who they are
LOL yeah, well part of that is that it seems like J2 only work like 3 days a week now. Which is good for them, but I wish the writers would be able to write the scenes they DO have in a more meaningful way.

And I'm going to friend you now because it seems like you have an interesting viewpoint on the show :)

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

I actually LOVED those because despite being formulaic, the earlier episodes were able to tie in the MOTW story with the brother's story arc

Yeah, exactly, i wouldn't call that exactly formalistic! It is, in the sense that there's a structure beign reused, but not in the sense that it is done thoughtlessly or without depth!

In contrast, the MOTW episodes in recent seasons have been almost ALL filler (which is a big pet peeve of mine for the obvious reasons, but also because then it leaves plot-heavy episodes with too much to do, and throws the pacing all off. Grrrr)

Yessss :-(

part of that is that it seems like J2 only work like 3 days a week now


Oh, wow, I didn't know that! Good for them, perhaps. At least they hopefully get to spend some more time with their families have wild four-way orgies sorry, six-way orgies pursue other projects.


Which is good for them, but I wish the writers would be able to write the scenes they DO have in a more meaningful way.

YES!

And I'm going to friend you now because it seems like you have an interesting viewpoint on the show :)

Aww, thanks for the compliment :)
Friending right back :)

[mashimero.livejournal.com]

It is, in the sense that there's a structure beign reused, but not in the sense that it is done thoughtlessly or without depth!
Exactly! The more recent seasons, while they might not follow the MOTW "formula" as closely, I think it has become much more predictable in terms of character arcs. Which I find very disappointing :(

Oh, wow, I didn't know that!
Well I live in Van and hear stuff about filming sometimes, and add to that things they've said at cons, Jared tweeting when he travels... and yeah, it seems like on average they only work 4 days a week, if that.

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

The more recent seasons, while they might not follow the MOTW "formula" as closely, I think it has become much more predictable in terms of character arcs. Which I find very disappointing :(

Yeah, absolutely. I'd really really like a clear feelings/relationships/character development arc going on, at least one. Isn't that what most ans watch for? Sure is a major part of what i watch for.


Well I live in Van and hear stuff about filming sometimes

Aww, cool :)

[mashimero.livejournal.com]

I'd really really like a clear feelings/relationships/character development arc going on, at least one. Isn't that what most ans watch for?

That's what I watch for too! It seems like there are a lot of people that don't though, and I don't just mean SPN. I've seen many people who get into a show because they follow their favourite fic authors or something, and become super-disappointed when the show is nothing at all what they expected LOL.

I actually really love talking about... IDK what the term is, but fandom-meta? Like, analyzing trends in fandom and stuff like that. I find it all so fascinating. Although I rarely post that stuff publicly because it's obviously very biased from my POV an generalizing.

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

I actually really love talking about... IDK what the term is, but fandom-meta? Like, analyzing trends in fandom and stuff like that. I find it all so fascinating .

ME TOO!

Although I rarely post that stuff publicly because it's obviously very biased from my POV an generalizing.

Oh, you should! One person's POV is a lot! And that's where a discussion can start, too...

[mashimero.livejournal.com]

Ehhhh IDK... I can get very ranty when I am in a meta mood, and sometimes say stuff that I probably shouldn't. I'll think about it :)