902 episode reaction (spoilers, of course)

[citrus_java]

Baack to yelling while I watch SPN, so that's good. "Dean, say that to *Sam*! Why is it never to Sam...?"

Crowley just goes ahead and talks about BDSM, no "blow smoke up your ass" innuendo. This is new. Interesting. Ear to the fans. And yeah, I'd like to see Sam in heels too. M.

I approve of the Kevin development, on one hand the stuff Crowley and Balder12 say about him and on the other that little smile when Dean praised him (Dean! Not Sam for once!), and whatever he may be thinking about his talk with Dean. Go Kevin.

In turns out military people scare me more than SPN demons.

Dean/Abaddon - ugh, hard on! Submissive Dean, strong sub Dean.... People who can appreciate that - it's - are - just - mmm. Also - omg omg I've been working on a fic about Meg lusting over Sam's body for her own in that way, a couple of months ago, and never got around to finishing it. Now SPN goes and does that *waves fist* It's really really cool, though.

Abaddon is great, and the bus driver thing was so beautifully vintage, like all of the stuff about her. It's hard to go that sort of vintage these days without it being cliche.

Kevin's family? Oh please. Dean, do you even remember what family means to you? Cas, I can believe – after years, and not as much as Sam (which may be good, but serious connection, yeah. But really? Kevin? I'll just assume Dean was saying what he needed to say to get Kevin to cooperate - which - has he ever done, when there wasn't some huge emergency or something? Lied about something so vulnerable? (setup for Kevin leaving like Sam did, though?)


ETA: This gif



and Sam's scene at the end of the ep. There are several similarities.
(gif not by me, linking back to where I found it)

Comments

[tabaqui]

That episode rocked six ways to Sunday. Whooo!!

I think that Dean, deep down, thinks Kevin's mom is dead, and that running after her just won't do anything but ruin Kevin. And they have *no* way to track her or find her, and they really do need Kevin, and he really is a target.

So i think a combination of his own bitterest experiences, and a bit of 'whatever it takes'. I loved that he's taken Kevin into the family, though - that he's opened up enough to his own craving for roots and connections to admit to Kevin, right out, that he's special and important to them over and above being a prophet.

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

That episode rocked six ways to Sunday. Whooo!!

Yay! Andrew Dabb's gaining favor with me.

I think that Dean, deep down, thinks Kevin's mom is dead

Makes a lot of sense.

opened up enough to his own craving for roots and connections

Aww, Dean! I like that, and like that Sam said something like that too...
"We're all we have" doesn't have the exact same punch when it's "You, Cas, Sam and I are all we have".

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

Honestly, his "you're family" to Kevin sounded just like his "you're family" to Cas last season when Cas was mind-controlled into bashing his face in :/

As in, "you're family because I need something from you" but then as soon as you piss me off, I'm gonna cold shoulder you until you can't take it anymore and run off straight into the clutches of the bad guys :/ *sigh*

That's *slightly* extreme, and I do think Dean cares about Cas, and even about Kevin. Still, he *does* have this tendency to use and manipulate people, and then forget about them when they're the ones needing help (unless they're Sam). Kevin's all traumatized in the beginning of this episode, and Dean just kind of blows it off, and therefore we get the mess at the *end* of the episode with Kevin about to flee :( Even after his speech to Kevin, Dean seems flippant about it: "He's a strong kid, he'll be fine"

Just like he's assuming Cas will be fine, on this long road trip on his own. Sam seemed more concerned than Dean was, and really surprised by that.

I wasn't :/ *sigh*

Don't get me wrong, I ADORE Dean with all his issues and there are reasons for this... he never got the affirmation and support he needed as a child, doesn't really know *how* to give it like he probably wishes he could... still, it gets frustrating :/ *sigh* lol

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

Good point. It makes sense to me that Dean would consider other people strong, as a way of being respectful. As a somewhat twisted way of believing in them.

That was the way John treated him, as you said, and I can see that it would correlate in his head - if you're strong you deserve to be loved, you're a worthy person. So if someone seems not that strong, averting your eyes and saying they'll be ok gives them the chance to right themselves, and they can come out strong and worthy. So it's doing something nice for them. I don't agree with this, of course, I can just imagine Dean thinking that way.

And not doing that to Sam is something Sam sometimes considers babying, cause Winchesters.

Honestly, his "you're family" to Kevin sounded just like his "you're family" to Cas last season when Cas was mind-controlled into bashing his face in :/

Oh, ugh, I didn't remember that :(

I don't remember him manipulating people, could you remind me? Either way, I agree that he has used people or treated them, specifically Cas, in very insensitive ways.

Yay for Spike lovin' by the way!

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

manipulating may be a strong word, but I'm basically talking about some of the guilt trips he lays on (which Sam gets his fair share of too, actually :( ...), throwing past mistakes up in people's (Sam, Cas) faces until they cave and do what he wants, etc...

The bit where Cas nearly killed him stands out to me, because Dean told him "we're family... i need you" and then next time Cas turned up, having been tortured and in desperate need of help, Dean helped him *physically*, yes, but was as cold and hard as I've ever seen him be to someone he said he cared about :/

What you said about him saying they're strong being his way of believing in them makes sense, too... I've recently become of the opinion that Dean doesn't realize how he hurts Cas's feelings, etc, because in Dean's eyes, Cas is still that invulnerable, awe-inspiring creature he met in 4.1 ...

What he said to Sam in the beginning of this episode was somewhat telling to me when Sam asked if Cas was human and he said "-ish." It's like even knowing he is human, Dean still can't quite fathom the idea. And that is what leads into the next bit of that conversation, where he is sure that Cas will make it back to them just fine all on his own.

Newly human, no money or weapons or anything, being hunted by the *thousands* of fallen angels that can easily find him...

Yeaaaaah.... no way *that* goes sideways :/

I love Dean fiercely but he also just drives me *mad* sometimes :P lol

And PS: Yeah, Spike was my first ever fandom obsession :D My friend just pointed out to me with my new Destiel obsession - I have a thing for the "painful, unrequited" thing, apparently :P hehe

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree that Dean lays on guilt trips on both of them, definitely. Kinda wanted to punch him for some of the things he said (him or the writers, could go either way ;-))

Dean doesn't realize how he hurts Cas's feelings, etc, because in Dean's eyes, Cas is still that invulnerable, awe-inspiring creature he met in 4.1

I very much agree.

I love Dean fiercely but he also just drives me *mad* sometimes :P

Yeah.
He can be very righteous indeed. And for all he sacrifices everything for Sam, he insists on things being his way, Sam is always bending around Dean's space.

It's been happening more, if I'm not mistaken, since season 8. I get the feeling Jensen has a hard time with that, perhaps... At first I thought his acting wasn't its usually glorious self on, say, the scene before Sam's confession, because he was having trouble with the writing. But perhaps he has trouble with Dean being not - in the right, I guess? I suspect he loves Dean at least as much as we do, and has a need to be good.


Spike was my first ever fandom obsession :D My friend just pointed out to me with my new Destiel obsession - I have a thing for the "painful, unrequited" thing, apparently :P hehe


Aw, you shipped Spike with Buffy?
And you consider Destiel unrequited? Interesting! It's not my ship, but most of what I see from it in fandom often reminds me of Spike/Xander in its fluffiness - though both relationships have their dark sides. Cas has been getting so much pain lately, poor boy... And Dean can be... cruel/unaware/held back...

[dreamsofspike.livejournal.com]

Yes, I definitely shipped Spike and Buffy for a long time - with a side non-canon ship of Spike/Tara when I needed Spike to get some comfort and tenderness :P

Through most of SPN, I see Destiel as unrequited, yeah... I think Cas has been in love with Dean almost since he's known him. That angel Hester said, "When Castiel laid a hand on you in hell, he was lost!" And I think she was right. I think from that moment, Cas was lost to Dean.

Dean, on the other hand, has spent much of their relationship using Cas, leaving him out in the cold, not helping/supporting him when he needs it... I think around the time of Purgatory, Dean started to realize how much Cas means to him, and we'll see how it plays out in this season... :P

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

Ooh! Spike/Tara!

[darkrose-9.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed this episode a lot - but we did see a lot of Dean lying and manipulating, and feeling very guilty. The part at the end, where he drinks all his alcahol, while Sam's barely taken a sip? That's telling. However, since I hope the end result of all this is that Dean learns something, I'm reserving real judgement just yet. :)

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

Ooh, good point, regarding Dean's drinking! I was busy thinking "season 5! Alcoholism!" and didn't even consider the difference between Sam and Dean, and the meaning behind that...

I'm pretty sure it's gonna bring problems, hope things get complex and interesting emotionally - it's a better plot development than I was expecting!

[balder12.livejournal.com]

I had a hard time with Dean's speech to Kevin too. It just didn't seem earned. I believe Dean cares about him, but not to that extreme degree. It was so over the top that it felt more manipulative than touching to me, which could be bad writing or could be deliberate. Last week Dean used a big speech about his love for Sam as a means to betray him, so maybe his speech to Kevin is supposed to feel weird.

I enjoy being cited alongside Crowley on the subject of Kevin's mental state. :D

[citrusjava.livejournal.com]

I agree... it's such a pity these days it's hard to tell subtext from bad writing :/
and ok acting but not like Jensen can



I enjoy being cited alongside Crowley on the subject of Kevin's mental state. :D



Oh, you earned it! ;)

Crowley's shaping out to be the series' Spike - defanged and insightful - and flirty, oh so flirty...
How come there isn't more Crowley/Sam? He's been flirting with him for such a long while, and Sam seems to mostly smile at it...