Yeah, I agree. And they seem to sometimes be aware of that...
What I'd like to see is an acknowledgment of the deception/lies/desperate codependency and an effort made to break it (on Dean's behalf at least). And even if it ends in failure (as it has at every previous turn) at least there's been a semblance of character growth
Why more on Dean's behalf? Either way - definitely would make a good season arc, if done well. Would appreciate an attempt, even, from the writers.
The fact is that the end result doesn't have to be different--i.e. the Winchesters will always put everything before all else, have major guilt issues and self-sacrifice (Sam), and lose their moral compasses when it comes to family (Dean)--but a story is about the struggle and effort, and that doesn't happen void of self-realization.
Tha t sounds real good.
So, what I'm trying to say is that it's the nuances, the characterization turns, and the effort that matter even if the overall plot remains the same.
Yeahyeah, agreed. That's what I hope to get back SPN again... But probably won't.
I didn't say anything about validity of ideas/needs/wants of fandom
Cool :)
I think there's a slight difference between being heard and being able to completely change the network writing process.
Oh, no argument there! I'm saying it would have been wise of them to act differently.
But what I was talking about was back story, past events, references to canon, specific incidents/conflicts that re-frame and contextualize the current story.
I get what you're saying, and agree that it can become much (haven't watched Lost, though), but I do believe it can be balanced in a way that will enable both to exist. They rarely even do the small comments like Sam's "There are no bells" thing last episode. And really, not only does SPN need to keep the existing audience, they need to keep their talent interested.
You might findthis an interesting read. :)
Interesting, terrifying... ;-)
An interesting SPN example of network "input" (back in the Dawn O. days) was Bela Talbot
Ooh, pet peeve! Except for Amelia, she is *so* my least favorite female character on the show. Brrr. Boring and insulting. And whenever Eric said he fans disliked her because we were just a bunch of catty, jealous women, I wanted to kick his ass so bad. On one hand I agree about things being organic - and definitely about the angels in the mytharc. On the other - sometimes it works so well... I know Eileen from Seinfeld was forced on the show in order to add a female character, and IMO she fit in great. My opinion of female characters in SPN before season 8, though, in general, is "just stop trying, it's not working, just write male characters". I do appreciate the many wonderful things people do with those characters in fandom.
no subject
Yeah, I agree. And they seem to sometimes be aware of that...
What I'd like to see is an acknowledgment of the deception/lies/desperate codependency and an effort made to break it (on Dean's behalf at least). And even if it ends in failure (as it has at every previous turn) at least there's been a semblance of character growth
Why more on Dean's behalf? Either way - definitely would make a good season arc, if done well. Would appreciate an attempt, even, from the writers.
The fact is that the end result doesn't have to be different--i.e. the Winchesters will always put everything before all else, have major guilt issues and self-sacrifice (Sam), and lose their moral compasses when it comes to family (Dean)--but a story is about the struggle and effort, and that doesn't happen void of self-realization.
Tha t sounds real good.
So, what I'm trying to say is that it's the nuances, the characterization turns, and the effort that matter even if the overall plot remains the same.
Yeahyeah, agreed. That's what I hope to get back SPN again... But probably won't.
I didn't say anything about validity of ideas/needs/wants of fandom
Cool :)
I think there's a slight difference between being heard and being able to completely change the network writing process.
Oh, no argument there! I'm saying it would have been wise of them to act differently.
But what I was talking about was back story, past events, references to canon, specific incidents/conflicts that re-frame and contextualize the current story.
I get what you're saying, and agree that it can become much (haven't watched Lost, though), but I do believe it can be balanced in a way that will enable both to exist. They rarely even do the small comments like Sam's "There are no bells" thing last episode. And really, not only does SPN need to keep the existing audience, they need to keep their talent interested.
You might findthis an interesting read. :)
Interesting, terrifying... ;-)
An interesting SPN example of network "input" (back in the Dawn O. days) was Bela Talbot
Ooh, pet peeve! Except for Amelia, she is *so* my least favorite female character on the show. Brrr. Boring and insulting. And whenever Eric said he fans disliked her because we were just a bunch of catty, jealous women, I wanted to kick his ass so bad. On one hand I agree about things being organic - and definitely about the angels in the mytharc. On the other - sometimes it works so well... I know Eileen from Seinfeld was forced on the show in order to add a female character, and IMO she fit in great. My opinion of female characters in SPN before season 8, though, in general, is "just stop trying, it's not working, just write male characters". I do appreciate the many wonderful things people do with those characters in fandom.